This is another bone of contention within both the Catholic and non-Catholic camps. Oral or Sacred Tradition is the passing down of teaching and the examples of other saints. However, in the Catholic Church, tradition is passed down and understood to be embodied in the episcopacy (the Pope, priests, etc.) While I don’t think there is anything wrong with following the traditions of the 1st century Christians, after the last apostle died, much wrong teaching came into the body. For example, in the Epistle to the Trallians by Ignatius of Antioch written around 95 A.D., it says that Christians are to obey the bishop as they are to obey God! Wow. He didn’t even let John the Apostle’s grave get cold! John the apostle warned us about this: http://www.housechurchconnections.com/?p=138 The Trallians were a Thracian tribe who were a violent, mercenary people. We don’t know if the Trallian church was planted in the way of Paul or one of the other apostles, but even if they were a hard church to handle, like the Corinthian church, the point that he said to “obey your bishop like you would obey God”, is the first step of our downward spiral into the clergy – laity divide. Now for the but. There are 3 verses (which I will post below) that seem to support tradition.
Acts 8:30-31 So Philip ran up and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. He asked him, “Do you understand what you’re reading?” The man replied, “How in the world can I, unless someone guides me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
This is obviously Phillip teaching another individual orally.
2 Peter 1:20 “no prophecy in Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation”
This seems to say we can’t interpret the Bible for ourselves. The Greek says ἰδίας ἐπιλύσεως which means “one’s own interpretation.”, but many translations say “no prophecy of scripture come from the prophet’s own interpretation.”. 1 point for Catholicism, 1 point for the opposing team. But there’s another but. The passage does not say scripture isn’t a matter of one’s own interpretation, but a prophecy of scripture isn’t a matter of one’s own interpretation. So this text is not talking about understanding scripture at all. It seems to be talking about prophecy. The verses just before 2 Peter 1:20 were speaking of the prophecies the disciples were given. Peter isn’t talking about every prophecy in the future, since the devil can and does disguise himself as an angel of light, but we are to “search the scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11). Another point for the opposing team 🙂
Catholics 1 Non-Catholics 2
Why do I use the term non-Catholics? Because the Lord has kept a remnant alive that were not necessarily Protestants. Some call them Anabaptists, Waldensians, etc. There are a host of Christians who are not cut from the same cloth as the “Protestant” churches. There were saints who were martyred when Constantine made the state religion who did not bow down to that watered down church.
This is a fictitious dialogue between Martin Luther and his Catholic prosecutors posed by Dave Armstrong:
Luther: (L) The Catholic church is wrong about a b and c.
Catholic (C) Why do you say that?
L: because it’s unbiblical
C: Who gave you the authority to claim such a thing?
L: My authority is the Word of God
C: We grant you sincerity, but not everyone agrees with you. Why should we believe YOU over against 1500 years of Church tradition?
L: Because the Holy Spirit has told me
C: He has told us too! So we either accept what you say as authoritative or what the Church says?
L: Yes, because you are wrong, because what I teach lines up with scripture. You disagree with me not because of any lack of clarity in Scripture but because of your own blindness.
This can go on all day. While these words are fictional, they were modified from Against the Spiritual Estate of the Pope, July 1522 Diet of Worms
Now for some more
I praise you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions just as I passed them on to you. 1 Corinthians 11:2
But we command you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to keep away from any brother who lives an undisciplined life and not according to the tradition they received from us. 2 Thessalonians 3:6
Related Articles
- Are there other sources of authority for Christians besides the Bible? (askthepastors.wordpress.com)
- Tradition and Scripture (wateristhickerthanblood.wordpress.com)
- Catholics and Scripture (A Post on Verbum Domini) (practicalcatholic.wordpress.com)
Reba Weiss
March 7, 2011
It is not within the power or province of the church to make laws or by-laws, to amend or change, to add too, or subtract from the revealed will of God or Word of God. The church of our Lord is an absolute monarchy with Christ as King of kings, and Lord of lords, All power is vested in Christ the head of the church, and all authority is his both in heaven and on earth (Matt. 28:18-19). The church exists to proclaim the gospel and to execute the will of her Lord. The enactment of laws and decrees is not left to the discretion of the church. Professor John L. Girardeau, of Columbia Theological seminary, in his book (Instrumental Music In Public Worship, p. 24) says, “The principle of the discretionary power of the church in regard to things not commanded by Christ in his word, was the chief fountain from which flowed the gradually increasing tide of corruptions that swept the Latin church into apostasy from the gospel of God’s grace. And as surely as causes produce their appropriate effects, and history repeats itself in obedience to that law, any Protestant church which embodies that principle in its creed is destined, sooner or later, to experience a similar fate.” Remember, it was our Lord who said, “In vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men” (Matt. 15:9).
Ant Writes
March 7, 2011
I agree, but why do you believe that? The verses I listed seem to say the exact opposite. However, the fact that people sit in pews for an hour and have 1 person preach is unbiblical, yet millions do it every Sunday around the world. Tithing is an OLD covenant teaching, yet protestant pastors tell parishioners to tithe to pay their salaries, which again is unbiblical.
Reba Weiss
March 8, 2011
It seems to me that a WHOLE bunch of people sat and listened to Paul for much longer than one hour…so we have the example that the early Christians did this and there is nothing wrong with it. (Acts 20) Do we HAVE to have a preacher preach every Sunday?…no…but having bible study, singing, GIVING, teaching, preaching, praying and partaking of the Lord’s Supper is all biblical and according to the commandments given in Scripture. Tithing and Giving are two different things. We are commanded to give in several scriptures in the New Testament (2 Cor 9 being one of them). So this also is Biblical. Demanding that a person give a CERTIAN percentage or amount (I believe that even providing envelopes etc is stepping over the line) is not supported in scripture or by example in the New Testament.
God reveals His will for us in the inspired Scriptures which we call the Bible…and I believe…in answer to your question above of “why do I believe what I believe” that “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Tim 3:16-17. and also 2 Peter 1:2-4. Yes, we are guided by the Holy Spirit (2 Cor 2: 11-13) it is the combining of the spriritual things with the spritiual words…so we MUST use the Scripture and the Scripture alone to proof the words of men…if they dont add up…the SCRIPTURE is always correct.
Ant Writes
March 8, 2011
Yes, I definitely agree that a WHOLE bunch of people sat and listened to Paul for much longer than one hour…but Paul wasn’t concerned with ritual. He was concerned with community. A community of brothers and sisters who hung out and fellowshipped on a regular basis. In Acts Chapters 2-4, we see the first Christians living in almost a commune. This is what Paul learned. Community can be defined i many ways. Do you all share the same house? Do you live a block away? Or do you live like the Anabaptist Amish? Each person has to be secure n their own conscious about that. Dietrich Bonhoeffer was one of the first authors in our generation to bring back “community”. Watchman Nee was another.
T. Austin Spark was my favorite. Wait until I talk about denominationalism! Should be the next major post.
Reba Weiss
March 8, 2011
But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits[b] to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14 He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings[c] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter. 2 Thes 2:13-15
and the King James actually uses the translation hold fast the traditions.
Paul seemed pretty concerned about it…since he wrote it in a letter to an entire congregation.
Hey Anthony…is it just you and me in this discussion LOL
Reba Weiss
March 8, 2011
but you are very right about the commune thing. That is one of the things that I feel the “church” has chosen to ignore.
Ant Writes
March 8, 2011
I think it’s just you and me..their loss! I want you guys to meet the Bruderhof next time you come here..They changed my entire viewpoint on my things…maybe real soon? Kylie can come 🙂 T
Reba Weiss
March 8, 2011
sounds real good…we are still planning April. I want to meet the Bruderhof too. Hey, are you actually a part of them now?
Ant Writes
March 8, 2011
No, to be a part of them I have to give away all my possessions and move there 🙂
Reba Weiss
March 8, 2011
noted. 🙂